Rumeurs et nouveautés 2024

[MamzelAmanda]

Je n'y connais pas grand choses en argentique, mais qui dit demi format dit consommables particulier non ? (Film)

Non le demi-format c'est de la peloche 135 classique mais au lieu d'utiliser des surfaces ~24x36mm au format horizontal (paysage) pour chaque photo, on divise par deux la surface exposée à chaque photo, soit ~24x18mm,  et du coup elles se retrouvent à la vertical (portrait).
Qui dit surface plus petite dit 72 photos au lieu de 36, dit aussi optique plus petite mais aussi qualité moindre puisque moins de détails sur chaque photo.

[Mistral75]

(...)

J'ai l'impression qu'au départ Pentax parlait de proposer un 35mm argentique, et qu'aujourd'hui il y a 4 déclinaisons probables dans les cartons.

Au départ (vidéo de TKO PENTAX Film Project Story #1 - YouTube postée le 20 décembre 2022) il était question, sans engagement aucun, d'une possible séquence de 4 appareils photos argentiques :

• Compact camera
• High-end compact model
• SLR model
• Fully mechanical SLR camera

We plan to market not one but a series of film cameras (...) It may be a long journey (...) we know that it will take time to develop a true high-end SLR camera (...) First, we'll develop a compact film camera. Then, while reviewing a range of technologies, we'll move on to develop a high-end compact model, an SLR model, and finally and hopefully, a fully mechanical SLR camera. This is the road map we've laid out and we'll try to follow.

Ça s'est compliqué en septembre 2023 quand, dans un podcast de "Faut pas pousser les ISO" réalisé en prévision du salon de la photo Episode 2 : Le marché de la photo en 2023 - Faut pas pousser les ISO, Yazid Belmadi, responsable des relations presse et de la promotion des ventes chez Ricoh Imaging France, a déclaré que Pentax commencerait par lancer (simultanément) deux compacts, et ce au printemps 2024 :

Nous avions annoncé en décembre dernier le lancement d'un projet sur des produits argentiques. Bien sûr le projet est toujours d'actualité. Il verra le jour au printemps 2024 avec l'arrivée de deux produits.

Concernant le type d'appareil photo argentique que l'on sortira au printemps prochain il s'agirait, dans un premier jet, de deux compacts, des compacts haut-de-gamme par les caractéristiques techniques mais pas en terme de prix. Ils seront relativement abordables. Ce sera un premier jet, deux compacts, suivis de reflex, bien entendu, ce qui est quand même la pierre angulaire de ce type d'appareils.

Ricoh a assez rapidement relativisé les propos de Yazid, 20 jours après leur publication sur Pentax Forums et deux semaines après leur publication par Pentax Rumors.

We found information on several websites regarding our film camera development. This included two compact film cameras for Spring 2024 as mentioned by a colleague working for Ricoh Imaging Europe. This is not our official remark, nor is it based on any fixed information. We are indeed challenging the development of a compact film camera; however, we have not yet decided whether or when we will launch such a product.

Source : 19.10.23 – Official statement film camera project – PENTAX - Official Store

Du coup, l'interview de Yazid a été éditée. Elle commence vers 1h23 dans le podcast et le mastic dû au montage est clairement audible : la nouvelle partie a un "son de téléphone" très marqué. Le nouveau discours est le suivant :

Nous avions annoncé en décembre dernier le lancement d'un projet sur des produits argentiques. Bien sûr le projet est toujours d'actualité un an après l'annonce : nous allons lancer un compact argentique. A ce jour la date n'est pas arrêtée. La seule chose dont on soit sûr est qu'on lancera un compact argentique.

[ZeGaby]

Merci MamzelAmanda et Mistral75 pour les explications !

Je n'avais pas vu passer la correction sur FautPasPousserLesIso

J'espère qu'on aura bientôt plus d'info...

[Mistral75]

(...)
Je n'avais pas vu passer la correction sur FautPasPousserLesIso
(...)

Je ne l'ai vue que tout récemment, en faisant un point sur ce qui avait été publié à propos du futur compact argentique Pentax.

J'ai également constaté à cette occasion un ralentissement progressif de la cadence de publication d'articles dans Barfout, qui m'incite à penser que le projet prend du retard.

• mars 2023 : Short series PENTAX Film Project Club House Diary vol. 1 Guest: Keisuke Nagoshi x Yasushi Nishimura （Prism Lab KICHIJOJI） ｜ BARFOUT!
     
• avril 2023 : Short series PENTAX Film Project Club House Diary vol. 2 Guest: Mayu Hotta x Ittetsu Matsuoka ｜ BARFOUT!/
     
• mai 2023 : Short series PENTAX Film Project Club House Diary vol. 3 Guest: Moka Kamishiraishi ｜ BARFOUT!
     
• juillet 2023 : Short series PENTAX Film Project Club House Diary vol. 4 Guest: Yuta Koseki ｜ BARFOUT!
     
• août 2023 : Short series PENTAX Film Project Club House Diary vol. 5 Guest: Masumi Ishida ｜ BARFOUT!
     
• octobre 2023 : Short series PENTAX Film Project Club House Diary vol.6 Guest: Momoko Fukuchi ｜ BARFOUT!
     
• décembre 2023 : Short series PENTAX Film Project Club House Diary vol.7 Guest: Riko ｜ BARFOUT!

Depuis, plus rien, ni en janvier ni en février. Le prochain volume de la série, ce sera autour du 20 mars au plus tôt, 3 mois après le volume précédent.

[Mistral75]

A noter une bizarrerie dans le volume 5 de la série d'articles publiée par Barfout.

Makoto Iikawa, Manager, 2nd Development Department, Development Center, Pentax Division, Ricoh Imaging Company, Ltd., parle en long et en large de ghosting et de flare avec l'invitée, une jeune photographe.

Iikawa: You often include ghosting from your lenses in your works, don't you? Like giving or taking out the shape of the aperture. You are very good with ghosting, but do you learn where they appear by looking through the viewfinder? There are times when you can't see it, right?

Iikawa: It adds a very nice accent, and you seem to know how to get the most out of it. I also thought it was great that you included it in a way that it doesn't overlap with the main subject.

Iikawa: I design lens barrels, so I design them to avoid flare and ghosting.

Iikawa: I love the way you show the ghosts in your photobook "Otototoi" with Kaho (shows her the photo). I know that the angle and aperture change the way it comes out, but you have a wide variety of variations.

Iikawa: There are many young photographers who take pictures like you, as well as many old lens enthusiasts. We're often told, "This is the kind of ghosting that makes this lens so good." From our perspective, we had the impression that "ghosting = evil," and we kept trying to make it so that it wouldn't appear, but when the light is expressed so well with sensitivity, people say, "I like how this picture turned out."

BARFOUT!: So is it better to have a little flare occur in the new lens you're developing or......? Well, we're sure it's not that simple.

Iikawa: I can't go into details (laughs). We wanted to make it a little different from the lenses that have been designed to maximize performance. This is because that is what we learned from looking at the photos of the young people. The point is how to use the tools, and what is available at the time is used well. And the person's personality comes out in the way he or she uses it. So rather than just making a lens that takes beautiful pictures, we would like to make one that has a certain flavor.

Est-il en train de parler de l'objectif qui équipera le futur compact argentique ? N'est-il pas plutôt en train de parler du FA 50 mm f/1,4 Classic ? Ce dernier a pourtant été annoncé mi-mai 2023, trois mois avant la publication de l'article. C'est un peu long comme délai de publication, même pour un magazine mensuel, et ça tendrait à prouver que la publication de certains articles a été retardée de manière à accompagner le retard pris par le projet.

[Zygonyx]

Merci pour toutes ces infos Mistral.
Espérons que les choses bougent, "soon or later", mais de mon point de vue ils ont déjà perdu un temps précieux sur ce projet multiforme et assez mal défini (c'est du moins la perception du public suite à une communication très floue et étalée) ; et ils me semblent encore une fois viser une niche à la fois étroite, et sans synergies avec les optiques qualitatives qu'ils ont commencé à sortir en FF et qui auraient besoin de suites.
Je crains donc le "too litle - too late" pour ce projet qui avait toutes les chances de "cartonner" s'il avait démarré plus tôt et visé le public "amateur" + "enthousiaste".

[Mistral75]

On dirait que ça s'apprête à bouger du côté du Pentax Film Project.

PENTAX Photography

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556657527079

PENTAX Film Photography (@pentax.film.photography) • Photos et vidéos Instagram

[MamzelAmanda]

Intéressant mais curieux le formulaire de la newsletter dans une iframe, ça ne passe pas sur mon Firefox en mode strict contre le pistage. J'attends un peu avant de m'inscrire la dessus.

[Zygonyx]

C'est vrai, pas très habile ni sécure a priori...
Messages fusionnés le 28 Fév 24 à 23:01
Du coup je viens de me prendre un Espio 120 SW II d'occas mais comme neuf 

[Mistral75]

Un questionnaire Pentax que je vous conseille de remplir :

https://questant.jp/q/86PT0EYA

C'est la version anglaise et condensée, à diffusion occidentale, d'un questionnaire en japonais envoyé le 15 février aux possesseurs d'un Ricoh Imaging ID.

A noter les questions relatives à un compact étanche à haute qualité d'image ; auraient-ils le projet d'un compact étanche à capteur relativement grand (un pouce par exemple) ?

[MamzelAmanda]

Répondu !

J'espère que ça servira réellement, notamment pour avoir un retour des pentaxistes hors-japon. En tout cas l'initiative est bonne cette fois. J'aurais bien aimé que ce questionnaire circule plus à travers les réseaux officiels afin de toucher d'autres gens mais bon je suis déjà contente.

[Mistral75]

(...) J'aurais bien aimé que ce questionnaire circule plus à travers les réseaux officiels afin de toucher d'autres gens mais bon je suis déjà contente.

Il a été relayé sur Facebook par Ricoh Imaging, le compte correspondant à https://us.ricoh-imaging.com.

[MamzelAmanda]

Je n'ai pas de compte FB et donc pas de possibilité d'y voir les posts sans me battre avec des popup.
Je pensais plutôt à des publications directement sur les sites comme https://pentax.eu ou sur le site https://us.ricoh-imaging.com/ que tu citais, voir également par le biais des newsletters, je n'aurais pas du utiliser le terme "réseaux" c'est trop ambigu et fait tout de suite penser aux réseaux sociaux.

[Mistral75]

Ricoh Imaging Americas Corp., la filiale nord-américaine de Ricoh Imaging, est à l'origine de ce questionnaire. Toutes les personnes qui lui ont fait part de leur adresse électronique pour recevoir nouvelles et promotions ont reçu un courriel les invitant à répondre au questionnaire.

[MamzelAmanda]

Ok je n'avais pas cette info là.

[Mistral75]

Riche journée aujourd'hui pour le Film Camera Project : un communiqué de presse et une vidéo.

PENTAX Film Camera Project shifts to the next stage in the development of a new film camera｜RICOH IMAGING

PENTAX Film Project Story #03 - YouTube

Transcription du monologue de TKO :

"Hello, everyone! It's TKO again.

The Film Camera Project, which we launched at the end of 2022, has received tremendous support of many people, not only film camera enthusiasts both in Japan and overseas, but also from industry partners and students who assisted our research. Their support made us realize the growing popularity of film cameras and analog photography while serving as great encouragement to us.

We wondered over and again whether we should proceed with this project and whether it would be possible for us to develop the product we intended to. It was your support and advice that helped us regain our confidence and encouraged us to move on. We are very thankful for this.

We visited a number of countries and received many opinions and suggestions.

Finally, we were able to visualize the overall image of our new film camera.

Today I'll tell you more about the camera.

As I explained in previous video presentations the basic concept of this product is a camera that allows younger photographers to fully enjoy taking photos as they enter the world of film photography.

So, what kind of camera should it be? We repeatedly asked ourselves this question. Here is how we're thinking about it now. I'm going to share some new product information with you today.

First of all, this camera is basically designed for vertical-format photos. That is, it provides a vertical-format image when you look into the viewfinder and the basic format of image framing is also vertical.

Why did we decide on vertical-format framing?

In today's society, which is saturated with digital gadgets, smartphones are such an important part of people's daily lives.

When we communicate with each other using smartphones and tablet computers, we basically hold the device in a vertical position. The result is that we more often capture vertical-format photos.

When we exchange images via social media, vertical-format photos come in handy.

One of the pleasures younger photographers have with film photography is in exchanging photos developed from the film as digital data.

Based on these factors, we decided that the vertical format would be better accepted by younger photographers.

There was another reason why we felt that the vertical format is a better choice.

Compared with the peak of film photography, the price of film is much higher today. This is a very difficult hurdle to overcome in enjoying analog photography. Due to the limited number of photos that can be captured on a single roll of film, the high running costs, including that of development, are also a big issue.

By designing a vertical-format camera, we figured that we could double the number of photos captured on each roll of film. This led us to adopt a half-size format. Because this format takes up about half the size of the conventional image area, it doubles the number of photos that can be captured.

We believe that this is a very effective solution to reduce the costs involved, including that of film purchases. It means that you can capture 48 photos on a roll of 24-exposure film or 72 photos on 36-exposure film.

Our hope is that it would make analog photography more enjoyable and more accessible to younger photographers, keeping it within their budget.

PENTAX has been engaged in the development of film cameras for many decades. But this is the first time that we produce a PENTAX-branded half-format camera. When we came up with the idea of a half-format camera we came to realize that there was a camera format we hadn't yet used.

It was a bit of surprise for us.

The vertical format brings yet another benefit. You can lay out two vertical-format photos side by side on the space of a single 35mm-format image. This provides a tremendous advantage. By placing two photos together in a single image you can create a work of art that can better tell a concept or story.

I expect that this will stimulate the creativity of younger photographers and inspire them to capture beautiful photos and produce fine works of art.

We expect that many photographers will use a film camera for the first time. At first, they may capture totally black photos due to underexposure or white-washed photos due to overexposure.

To prevent such troubles, we incorporated a few electronic-control mechanisms in the new camera.

One of them is the acclaimed electronic shutter unit. We plan to customize it for use in a film camera. It will provide the camera with a number of electronic-control features, including automatic control of aperture and shutter speed.

In other words, even a first-time user will be able to use the camera effortlessly and without trouble.

So, can the camera automatically take a photo with a single push of the shutter-release button? Yes, it can. I hope that we can make it happen. That's not all, however; the camera will also allow the photographer to manually change some settings.

One idea is to allow the photographer to choose the desired shooting mode via dial control. I hope you'll look forward to it!

For focusing operation, we are planning to incorporate a manually set zone-focus system. It will allow the user to set the desired focus range based on the distance to the subject by turning the focus ring positioned on the lens barrel.

We would also like to incorporate a mechanism that tells you the selected focus zone at a glance when you look into the viewfinder.

These features will provide the pleasure of manual control while also benefiting from the simplicity of automatic operation.

For film winding operations we plan to recreate an old-fashioned winding mechanism used in past film-format SLR cameras because we would like you to rediscover and enjoy the touch of this old mechanism. It works and feels exactly the way it was!

If you wind the film manually, you'd also like to rewind it manually, right? The good news is that we plan to recreate a vintage film rewinding mechanism as well. When you finish shooting a roll of film, pull out the rewinding crank and rotate it to rewind the film.

For film winding and rewinding operations it would have been much easier to use a motorized mechanism. However, we decided to go for the time and effort needed with a mechanical unit because we wanted you to enjoy the action and sound of winding/rewinding operations.

Next is the lens, the core element of a camera. When we decided to adapt the half-size format, we drew great inspiration from two of our past models.

One was the angle of view provided by the RICOH Auto Half, which was a popular half-size camera from decades ago.

Another was the optical design of the lens. For this, we referred to the optical design of PENTAX Espio mini, which was acclaimed as a masterpiece by many fans in the past.

Please look forward to this new lens, too!

That's all I can tell you now.

After listening to my presentation some of you may be wondering why we decided to develop this kind of camera.

Film photography has a long history during which manual mechanical cameras became handier and simpler to operate and finally evolved into fully automatic, electronically controlled models.

When we talked to many people after we launched this film camera project, which was aimed at creating a new camera for young, photography-loving people, we began to realize that it didn't have to be one of two choices: either fully manual or fully automatic.

For operations demanding convenience, we can incorporate electronically controlled mechanisms. For operations recreating the classic pleasure of mechanical action, we can use manual mechanisms.

We assessed each feature and every function based on these factors and carefully chose the most appropriate mechanism for each of them so that we could create a new camera that would meet all the expectations of young photographers.

This is not a camera that can be rated or classified simply in terms of features and functions.

In this presentation, I have explained to you what the overall product concept of our new film camera is. I've also noted that we have now reached the next stage of product development.

I hope that we can deliver a camera that allows first-time film camera users to fully and effortlessly enjoy film photography and also brings back former film camera lovers after years of absence.

To tell you the truth, we finished assembling a prototype and I actually took some photos with it. It was so much fun! It was really, really fun to use this camera. I was so overjoyed with this camera that I kept shooting a photo one after another. I'm not sure if I'm actually allowed to talk about this at this point. But it was so much fun that I cannot help it. What's more, every photo came out very nicely.

Thanks to your tremendous support, our new film camera is finally taking shape.

Developed as a part of the Film Camera Project we strongly believe that this is one of the most important models that we will be introducing to the camera market.

Analog photography will never disappear. It will never, ever become extinct.

For this project, I visited various countries and met many people involved in the analog photography business. All of them were very enthusiastic and supportive. They showed overwhelming interest in this camera.

I believe that young photographers will keep enjoying analog photography for generations to come. I hope that we can help them achieve their goals and dreams.

I would like to express my heartfelt appreciation to those of you who have supported this project: all film camera enthusiasts, the industry partners and students who assisted our research, retired PENTAX engineers who volunteered their services, and the members of our development team who have been working so hard to overcome difficulties day after day.

We are just a step away from our ultimate goal. We have come this far in making an actual product.

I appreciate your continuing support and encouragement all the way to the end of this project. I also wish that other camera manufactures would follow suit and enter the analog camera market. I will be very happy if this happens. Please consider my proposal!

But if and when it happens, please go easy on us.

It's time for film.
PENTAX, PENTAX, PENTAX
Film photography is coming back!
That's all from TKO."
Messages fusionnés le 01 Mar 24 à 08:25
N.B. : le Ricoh Auto Half était équipé d'un 25 mm f/2,8 (equ. 36 mm) et le Pentax Espio Mini d'un 32 mm f/3,5.

Le compact argentique Pentax devrait par conséquent être équipé d'un équivalent 35 mm.

[MamzelAmanda]

Demi-format confirmé je vais pleurer :'(
Zone Focus bon ... faut voir...
J'attendrai l'annonce de sortie afin de voir l'optique qui j'espère sera de bonne qualité mais pour l'instant je suis sur ma réserve avec ces deux paramètres. Selon le prix peut-être que je l'achèterai pour soutenir Pentax.

[Mistral75]

When we decided to adapt the half-size format, we drew great inspiration from two of our past models. One was the angle of view provided by the RICOH Auto Half, which was a popular half-size camera from decades ago. Another was the optical design of the lens. For this, we referred to the optical design of PENTAX Espio mini, which was acclaimed as a masterpiece by many fans in the past.

Les deux sources d'inspiration pour l'objectif :

• Ricoh Auto Half: mise au point fixe, 25 mm (équivalent 35 mm) f/2,8 (4 lentilles en 3 groupes)
  
• Pentax Espio Mini (UC-1): autofocus, 32 mm f/3,5 (3 lentilles in 3 groupes)
  

[MamzelAmanda]

N.B. : le Ricoh Auto Half était équipé d'un 25 mm f/2,8 (equ. 36 mm) et le Pentax Espio Mini d'un 32 mm f/3,5.

Le compact argentique Pentax devrait par conséquent être équipé d'un équivalent 35 mm.

Le Pentax Espio Mini étant un 24x36 classique l'optique couvre beaucoup plus qu'un demi-format donc s'il y a inspiration de l'optique ne devrait-on pas se retrouver avec un équivalent 50mm environ ? (je n'ai pas la conversion exacte en tête)
Contrairement au Ricoh Auto Half justement qui compensait en proposait ce 25mm donnant un équivalent 36mm comme tu le disais.

Etrange filiation, j'ai du mal à voir de quoi l'optique va hériter le plus.

[Mistral75]

Relis la citation de TKO : l'angle de champ s'inspirera de celui du Ricoh Auto Half (un 25 mm cadrant, sur le demi-format, comme un 35 mm sur un 24x36) et la conception optique s'inspirera de celle du Pentax Espio Mini (un triplet de Cooke ouvrant à f/3,5).

On peut donc s'attendre à une focale de 25 mm, peut-être une ouverture maximale de f/3,5, le tout avec 3 lentilles en 3 groupes.